The MississaugaWatch Sniff Test

This question is the MISSISSAUGAWATCH Sniff Test for all Ontario municipal Mayors and Councillors:

Do you support asking the Ontario government to extend the investigative authority of the Ontario Ombudsman to include municipalities?

If the answer is not an UNQUALIFIED "Yes!", ask "Why not?" and proceed with extreme caution.


MIRROR: Complete Mississauga Judicial Inquiry Transcripts

City of Mississauga 1996 Records Retention By-Law “In most legal situations, keeping electronic records for a longer period of time than that scheduled for paper records will not be to the City’s advantage.”

March 14th, 2010  

Today we will examine the March 12, 2010 testimony regarding the record-keeping at the City of Mississauga Mayor’s Office.

We will take testimony provided by Mayor Hazel McCallion’s executive secretary, Carol Horvat and compare it to City documents secured through Freedom of Information as well as comments made by City of Mississauga Freedom of Information coordinator Barbara McEwan during an April 11, 2007 deputation I made in front of Mississauga Council meeting (complete with video).

The salient point. City of Mississauga 1996 Records Retention By-Law “In most legal situations, keeping electronic records for a longer period of time than that scheduled for paper records will not be to the City’s advantage.”

Giddiyap!

BY-LAW 537-96 RETENTION AND DISPOSITION OF ELECTRONIC RECORDS (esp EMAILS)

CITY OF MISSISSAUGA RECORDS RETENTION BY-LAW 1996 TO 2003 WORD CHANGING CONCEALMENT

Click here for larger version.

City of Mississauga Records Retention (Destruction) By-Law 1996 version wording

D. RETENTION AND DISPOSITION OF ELECTRONIC RECORDS

As a general rule, retention periods of electronic records should be the same as retention periods of their paper counterparts.

At least from a legal perspective, retention periods of electronic records should never be longer than the retention period of their paper counterparts. When paper records containing legal evidence is disposed of at the end of their scheduled life cycle, their electronic counterparts should be disposed of at the same time, since electronic records can also be subject of discovery and seizure and used as evidence in legal proceedings. In most legal situations, keeping electronic records for a longer period of time than that scheduled for paper records will not be to the City’s advantage.

In 2003, City of Mississauga Records Retention (Destruction) By-Law 1996 Section D changed to:

D. RETENTION AND DISPOSITION OF ELECTRONIC RECORDS

Appraisal of electronic records for retention scheduling purposed is a complex and multi-faceted task which require the collaboration of Corporate Records, Information Technology, and the Operation Department. Appraisal criteria must include: the purposes and use of the system, the operational needs of the department(s) generating the system, legal retention requirements, and identification of any other systems that may provide input to or extract information from the system being appraised.

This video is an excellent summary of the practices at the City of Mississauga regarding electronic records. Former Freedom of Information coordinator, Barbara McEwan explains City policy. We also provide a transcript.

Video: CITY OF MISSISSAUGA RECORDS RETENTION (DESTRUCTION) BY-LAW (for the JUDICIAL INQUIRY) (April 11, 2007)

(Click here to go directly to the clip on YouTube)

[VIDEO TRANSCRIPT BEGINS]

COUNCILLOR CARMEN CORBASSON (ACTING CHAIR April 11, 2007 Council):

Thank you Ursula. Are there any questions from Council members? Seeing none, I’m not sure whether Barbara McEwan can answer any of Ursula’s questions this morning. I think she raised a number of points. If not I think it’d be appropriate if you took the time to sit down and meet with Ursula to see if you can answer some of the questions and address her concern but, I’ll give you the opportunity, Barbara if you wish—

MISSISSAUGAWATCH comments into camera (April 11, 2007 Council):

Could I just add one thing about that?

COUNCILLOR CARMEN CORBASSON (ACTING CHAIR April 11, 2007 Council):

Very briefly.

MISSISSAUGAWATCH comments into camera (April 11, 2007 Council):

Yeah.  I went to City Clerk, spoke to Ms. Greer. Then I was sent to Internal Audit, spoke to Ms Eng, Sally Eng. Then I went to Legal Services, spoke to them.

Then I went to —I even talk-spoke to the Director of Information and Technology.

None of them could adequately explain the implications of this By-Law.

COUNCILLOR CARMEN CORBASSON (ACTING CHAIR April 11, 2007 Council):

And I’m suggesting that the appropriate person is our Freedom of Information coordinator, which is Barbara McKewan, and that’s why I suggested that it would be appropriate to meet with her. But go ahead, Barbara.

DEPUTY CLERK, BARBARA MCEWAN (April 11, 2007 Council):

Madam Acting Mayor, through you, I’d be very pleased to meet to review all the background terms —how the By-Law amendments were brought forward. But in terms of the points that were raised this morning, I just want to confirm a few details.

Ms. Keuper-Bennett has correctly noted that email is a record and we recognize it as such in our Records Retention By-Law.

I guess the constraints that we operate under here at the City of Mississauga is that our email is an electronic system and we don’t really have a document management system that allows us to manage the retention of the email records electronically.

In other words, the emails are stored in the system but we don’t have an easy sort of way of taking each email as it’s dealt with and indexing it and applying the correct retention that we are required to do under the Records Retention By-Law.

So the alternative to that, which is practised by most corporations —I mean public and private sector organizations are dealing with this all the time. Our policy at the City of Mississauga is that, if we do receive an email and it is related to the business transaction of the City, it does qualify as a “record” and our Policy states that the email is printed and it is placed in the appropriate file.

And that way we can manage that record effectively in accordance with the retention periods that are in our By-Laws.

So in effect, we are not destroying records, we’re actually taking a pragmatic approach to managing the electronic mail by making sure that a hardcopy is retained and placed in the appropriate file.

Now the amendments that are in the By-Law that refer to retention for 30 days and 90 days and so forth, this refers to the tapes that we have —the backup tapes that we have. And really it’s in terms of a sort of a transitional management.

But the records are kept there depending on when the weekly backup is done.

But as I said, the practice at the City, which is why we practise, is that if it’s related to the business of the City, the email is printed, is placed in a file and we can manage it effectively in terms of retention.

COUNCILLOR CARMEN CORBASSON (ACTING CHAIR April 11, 2007 Council):

Okay, thank you, I think there’s probably much more to what Ms. McEwan had to say this morning and once again, if you’ll contact her, Ursula, and meet with her to see whether you concerns can be addressed.

Next we have….

[VIDEO TRANSCRIPT ENDS]

It all comes down to what a pair of eyeballs regards as a “record”.

City business print it out, delete email.

Not City business, delete email.

So.

“Let’s go for lunch today at 1:00 pm. I’ll meet you at the elevator.”
Staff are instructed that this is a NON-RECORD and  DELETE

CITY OF MISSISSAUGA RECORDS DESTRUCTION POLICY RECORD vs NON-RECORD

And now you’re ready to read Hazel McCallion’s executive secretary’s testimony regarding emails and records —cut-and-paste from the Mississauga Judicial Inquiry website

  1
  2
  3
  4                 MISSISSAUGA JUDICIAL INQUIRY
  5
  6
  7
  8
  9  Before:        Associate Chief Mr. Justice J. Douglas
 10                 Cunningham
 11
 12
 13
 14
 15
 16
 17
 18
 19  HELD AT:
 20                    Provincial Offence Court
 21                       Mississauga, Ontario
 22                         March 12, 2010
 23
 24                       Pages 1 to 36
 24                 COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS CUNNINGHAM:   Would
 25  you swear the Witness, please.

15

  1                 THE COURT CLERK:   Can you please state
  2  your name and spell it for the record, please?
  3                 THE COURT CLERK:   Can you please state
  4  your name and spell it for the record, please?
  5                 MS. CAROL HORVAT:   It's Carol Horvat; C-
  6  A-R-O-L, H-O-R-V, as in Victor, A-T.
  7                 THE COURT CLERK:   Okay, do you wish to
  8  swear or affirm?
  9                 MS. CAROL HORVAT:   I wish to swear,
 10  please.
 11
 12                    CAROL HORVAT, Sworn
 13
 14                 MR. WILLIAM MCDOWELL:   Now, as we're
 15  about to hear the first evidence in this Inquiry, we
 16  should file the terms of reference as Exhibit 1.
 17                 COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS CUNNINGHAM:   Exhibit
 18  1, terms of reference.  Thank you.
 19
 20  --- EXHIBIT NO. 1:         Terms of reference
 21
 22                 MR. WILLIAM MCDOWELL:   And we'll make
 23  Exhibit 2 certain documents which Mr. Horvat has with her
 24  to assist in giving her evidence on.
 25

16

  1  --- EXHIBIT NO. 2:         Carol Horvat's documents
  2
  3                 COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS CUNNINGHAM:   Thank
  4  you.  You have copies of these, Ms. Horvat, or do you?
  5                 THE WITNESS:    Yes, Commissioner, I do.
  6                 COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS CUNNINGHAM:    All
  7  right.  Thank you.
  8
  9  EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR. WILLIAM MCDOWELL:
 10                 Q:   Now, Ms. Horvat, I take it, in fact,
 11  that there is quite an elaborate process of -- of dealing
 12  with correspondence and other documents that come into
 13  the Mayor's office and with retaining those documents.
 14                 A:   Yes, there is.
 15                 Q:   All right.  Now just -- I want to get
 16  some background from you.  You have been with the Mayor's
 17  office since what date?
 18                 A:   March 20th, 1990, so it will be
 19  twenty (20) years this month --
 20                 Q:   All right.
 21                 A:   -- that I've been with her.
 22                 Q:   And before that, you worked in the
 23  planning department?
 24                 A:   Yes, for about two (2) or three (3)
 25  years.

17

  1                 Q:   And you are now the Mayor's executive
  2  assistant?
  3                 A:   Yes,
  4                 Q:   Since what date?
  5                 A:   Approximately 2003 I became her
  6  executive assistant.
  7                 Q:   Right.  Now we're going to be talking
  8  about the present system of dealing with correspondence
  9  and other documents in the Mayor's office, but I wanted
 10  to take you back to 2000, because, of course, in 2000
 11  there's the Enersource transaction that's of interest to
 12  this Inquiry.
 13                 What was the -- the computer system in use
 14  in 2000?
 15                 A:   The computer system is relatively
 16  similar to what it is today; it's just a different
 17  technology.  It was simply a -- I recall it being a
 18  WordPerfect document.  It looked very much like what it
 19  looks today; it just wasn't as sophisticated, if you
 20  will.  But the same kind of information was collected and
 21  registered as it is today, and the physicality of the
 22  document resembled what it resembles today.
 23                 Q:   So if we were looking for the Mayor's
 24  agendas from the -- the period 1999 and 2000, would we
 25  have access to those?

18

  1                 A:   Yes, they're available
  2  electronically.
  3                 Q:   In what format?
  4                 A:   In WordPerfect still.
  5                 Q:   All right.  And with respect to e-
  6  mails on the Enersource issue, would we have access to
  7  those from 1999 or 2000?
  8                 A:   I would have to check on that.  Any
  9  files on Enersource have been turned over to our City
 10  legal division, which I understand are turning them over
 11  to you --
 12                 Q:   Right.
 13                 A:   -- so that hard copy of any e-mails
 14  that would have been printed at that time would be
 15  contained in those files.
 16                 Q:   What was the practice in relation to
 17  printing e-mails, going back to 2000?
 18                 A:   Generally speaking, the practice in
 19  our office with regard to e-mails has always been that
 20  they are printed, a hard copy is made and registered, and
 21  then the e-mail's deleted.
 22                 Q:   Right.  What -- when you say
 23  "registered," what do you mean?
 24                 A:   Through the mail log system that you
 25  have in the -- the package here.  So, each individual e-

19

  1  mail is registered, it's given a number, it's recorded as
  2  to who the e-mail is from, the subject matter of the e-
  3  mail --
  4                 Q:   Right.
  5                 A:   -- the file number, the suggested
  6  action to be taken on that item, and then all e-mails at
  7  the end of the day are given to the Mayor for review; not
  8  just e-mails, but all mail in general that comes in.
  9                 Q:   All right.  Let's just find in the
 10  package what we're talking about.  Do you want to turn up
 11  the example for the -- of the registry process.
 12                 A:   That would be tab 1, I believe.
 13                 Q:   Okay.  So here we've got a couple of
 14  invitations that -- that have come in for the Mayor to be
 15  the keynote speaker at something.  So what happens when
 16  this comes in?
 17                 A:   So what happens in this pa -- using
 18  this as an example, what would happen is this would be
 19  something that would be printed.  It would either be an
 20  e-mail or a piece of actual mail.  It would have come
 21  into the office, been date stamped, given a registry
 22  number, which you'll see on the far left, which, in this
 23  case, is one two six zero (1260).
 24                 Q:   Right.
 25                 A:   That is then physically written on

20

  1  the item.  The person's name would have been under the
  2  origin, where it's now been redacted.
  3                 Q:   Mm-hm.
  4                 A:   The subject matter, as you can see,
  5  it was an invitation to the Mayor to be a keynote speaker
  6  at an event.  Then the suggested action is asking the
  7  Mayor whether she wishes to do this, and if so, we can
  8  look at some dates, because in this particular case they
  9  had not given us specific dates; they left it open to the
 10  Mayor.
 11                 What then happens is all of the items for
 12  the day get put into a folder.  The Mayor physically
 13  reads -- personally reads all the mail that comes into
 14  her office.  She would then review that and then return
 15  it either the same day to us or the next business day.
 16                 Q:   Well, that's -- I wanted to ask you
 17  that.  Does she take a big stack of this stuff home and -
 18  - and look at it during the evening, or does she have
 19  time during the day to do it?
 20                 A:   That solely depends on her schedule
 21  for any given day.  If she happens to be in the office
 22  the entire day, then she does try to make an effort to do
 23  it before she leaves so as not to have to bring work
 24  home.  But if, for some reason, her day is an early one,
 25  in terms her official meetings in the office, let's say

21

  1  end at noon, and the rest of the afternoon is made up of
  2  external events such as groundbreakings, what have you,
  3  she -- or I would, rather, bring the work home to her.
  4                 Q:   Right.  Now, for 2000, this -- this
  5  registry system, do we still have access to this?
  6                 A:   Yes.  It would be available in
  7  electronic format.
  8                 Q:   Right.  Now, there's some
  9  documentation going back to 2000 and going forward that
 10  you have on floppy disks; what is that?
 11                 A:   That would be from 1999 to
 12  approximately 2004.  We have all of the mail logs, which
 13  is what you see before you, on floppy disks, prior to us
 14  going to the new system, which happened in 2005/2006.
 15                 Q:   Right.  And those have been turned
 16  over to the City now?
 17                 A:   Yes.  I was asked to search through
 18  all of the floppy disks.  I was given a list of key words
 19  to look for.  Any instances where those words appeared on
 20  those documents, that sheet was printed out -- it's quite
 21  a large stack -- and it was turned over to our legal
 22  division.
 23                 Q:   Right.  And -- and what's the volume
 24  of that?  How big is the stack?
 25                 A:   Quite a bit.  It's legal size sheets

22

  1  of paper, and I would say it's probably about two (2)
  2  inches thick.
  3                 Q:   All right.  And when -- when was that
  4  turned over?
  5                 A:   Two days ago, I believe.
  6                 Q:   Okay.  Now, going now to the present
  7  system, how does the Mayor create her schedule now?
  8                 A:   It's very similar to how it was
  9  always done.  It's still a WordPerfect document.  So, if
 10  I can use an example, an invitation would come in --
 11                 Q:   Yeah.
 12                 A:   -- it would go to this -- so it's
 13  date stamped.  It's given to the Mayor's scheduler.
 14                 Q:   Right.
 15                 A:   At the end of the day, all of the
 16  invitations that came in that day would be placed in a
 17  blue folder marked "Invitation File."  It's then given to
 18  the Mayor for her personal review.  She decides what
 19  meetings she goes to and what she doesn't go to, because
 20  either she's unavailable or what have you.  Then that
 21  folder of invitations is returned back to the scheduler -
 22  -
 23                 Q:   Right.
 24                 A:   -- to then undertake the necessary
 25  direction given by the Mayor.

23

  1                 Q:   Right.  And the Mayor gives that
  2  direction in what form?
  3                 A:   She gives it in handwritten form.
  4                 Q:   Right.
  5                 A:   Just --
  6                 Q:   Now, let's deal with correspondence
  7  and, specifically, let's deal with electronic mail.  If
  8  someone wanted to write to the Mayor about -- yeah, let's
  9  say, in 2009, someone wanted to write to the Mayor about
 10  the WCD proposed transaction, or about the transaction
 11  with OMERS.  An e-mail comes into the Mayor's office.
 12                 First of all, does the Mayor herself have
 13  a computer?
 14                 A:   No, she does not.
 15                 Q:   All right.  What happens to that e-
 16  mail?
 17                 A:   It's received by myself because I
 18  have proxy to the Mayor's e-mail account.  I print the e-
 19  mail, and then once again it's put in the daily mail log
 20  folder for her review.
 21                 Q:   It's put in her daily folder for her
 22  review.
 23                 A:   Mm-hm.
 24                 Q:   And then, at the end of the day, what
 25  becomes of all of those e-mails?

24

  1                 A:   Well, along with the actual physical
  2  items being given to the Mayor is the spread sheet that I
  3  previously referred to.
  4                 Q:   Mm-hm.
  5                 A:   On there would be her handwritten
  6  direction on each individual item as to what direction
  7  she wanted undertaken.  That folder then comes back to
  8  me.  I undertake the direction on the items that pertain
  9  to my particular role in the office.
 10                 Q:   Right.
 11                 A:   Then it's distributed to other people
 12  in the office.  For instance, if one of the directions
 13  was to set up a meeting, that item would then be
 14  physically given to the Mayor's scheduler to set the
 15  meeting up.
 16                 Q:   And all of this e-mail is retained in
 17  daily files, is that right?
 18                 A:   Yes, they are placed in subject
 19  files.
 20                 Q:   Placed in subject files.  Now --
 21  well, let's ask this question:  Are the Mayor's
 22  handwritten notations also preserved, or just the -- the
 23  -- the source document?
 24                 A:   What happens is, when we get the mail
 25  log sheet back from the Mayor, at either the end of the

25

  1  day or the next day, a record is made of her handwritten
  2  comments on the computer, so that there's an electronic
  3  record of her comments.  We then keep these sheets that
  4  are the physical hard copies of those log sheets for a
  5  period of a year, and then they're thrown out because
  6  there's no need to keep them.  We have an electronic
  7  version.
  8                 Q:   Right.  So the ones for -- for late
  9  2009 would still be available, then?
 10                 A:   The actual sheets or the items?
 11                 Q:   The sheets.
 12                 A:   No, because it would -- they're only
 13  kept for a year.
 14                 Q:   But it's not a year since, for
 15  example, October 2009, so we would still have those.
 16  Within one year we'll have --
 17                 A:   No.  At the end of every calendar
 18  year --
 19                 Q:   Oh, okay.  I have --
 20                 A:   Sorry.  I should be more specific.
 21  At the end of every calendar year -- like in December
 22  generally of every year, before the new files are
 23  created, in order to make space, they would have been
 24  thrown out, on or around December.  It could be sometimes
 25  January.  It depends on how, you know, busy we are.

26

  1                 Q:   All right.  Now, with respect to
  2  correspondence or e-mails that the Mayor sends out, how
  3  are those dealt with?
  4                 A:   They're dealt with in two (2) ways.
  5  First of all, we maintain monthly records of every memo
  6  the Mayor sends out.
  7                 Q:   Mm-hm.
  8                 A:   So let's just say we're talking about
  9  2010; for the month of January, there would be a separate
 10  file folder with a hard copy of every memo that the Mayor
 11  sent out that month.
 12                 Q:   Right.
 13                 A:   A duplicate of that memo would then
 14  be also placed in the subject file.
 15                 Q:   Right.
 16                 A:   And the same goes with external
 17  correspondence.  Any letters or e-mails the Mayor sends
 18  out, a hard copy is placed in a reading file, and then
 19  the original is placed in the subject file.
 20                 Q:   Right.  Now, let me ask you this that
 21  -- we're all sort of possessed of, or possessed by our
 22  Blackberries.  We seem to communicate most of the time
 23  with other lawyers and so on by Blackberry.  The Mayor, I
 24  take it, doesn't have a Blackberry.
 25                 A:   She owns a Blackberry.  She has been

27

  1  issued one by the corporation, but she --
  2                 Q:   Does she use it?
  3                 A:   Extremely rarely.
  4                 Q:   All right.  If you want to get hold
  5  of the Mayor -- someone writes to the Mayor with a really
  6  urgent matter by e-mail or Blackberry message -- how do
  7  you get hold of the Mayor?
  8                 A:   I would phone her or I would go into
  9  her office if she was in.
 10                 Q:   So she has a cellular phone, I take
 11  it?
 12                 A:   Yes, issued by the City.
 13                 Q:   Right.  And those records are
 14  maintained by somebody, the records of her cellular phone
 15  traffic?
 16                 A:   Yes.  We receive a bill monthly from
 17  the carrier which goes to our accounts payable
 18  department.  They then send the bill down to the Mayor's
 19  office in the inter-office mail.  The Mayor initials the
 20  bill, which in fact authorizes payment.  The bill is then
 21  initialled by our City manager and is returned to the
 22  accounts payable department for processing and payment.
 23                 Q:   Now, this isn't a concern of the
 24  Inquiry, but does she just initial payment for the whole
 25  bill, or does she break out her personal calls, or how's

28

  1  that done?
  2                 A:   No, she just initials the whole bill.
  3                 Q:   All right.  Now, just so we're clear
  4  about this, what has the Mayor's office turned over to
  5  the City to date?
  6                 A:   We've turned over many things.  We've
  7  turned over, as I indicated previously, all of the mail
  8  logs from 1999 to 2004 approximately, that mentioned the
  9  key words we were asked to search for.
 10                 Q:   Mm-hm.
 11                 A:   We have turned over phone calls that
 12  we currently maintain electronically on the system, again
 13  citing the specific words we were asked to choose.
 14                 Q:   Mm-hm.
 15                 A:   We have turned over all of our files
 16  pertaining to Enersource that have been in storage, so
 17  we're probably going back eight (8) to ten (10) years.
 18  So those have physically been turned over.  We have also
 19  turned over all of our Enersource files for the years
 20  2009 and '10, because they were physically located at the
 21  time in our office.
 22                 Q:   Enersource or WCD?
 23                 A:   Enersource.
 24                 Q:   All right.
 25                 A:   Anything to do with WCD would have

29

  1  been put in the Enersource file, because we use subject
  2  files.
  3                 We also have turned over all working
  4  papers from both myself and the Mayor pertaining to
  5  anything to do with Enersource.
  6                 Q:   All right.  If -- if we're looking
  7  for the resolution of the action between WCD, which is
  8  the company that either is or isn't owned by Peter
  9  McCallion and OMERS, if we're looking for anything having
 10  to do with that, what files would we find it in, do you
 11  think?
 12                 A:   Most likely those would be in the
 13  Enersource files, because our -- our entire history of --
 14  at least since I've been there in the Mayor's office --
 15  has always been subject driven.  So anything relating to
 16  a subject, regardless of who it's from, would be placed
 17  in a subject file.
 18                 Q:   Now, is there a Sheridan College
 19  file?
 20                 A:   Yes.
 21                 Q:   Right.  Having to do with the
 22  proposed -- well, not the proposed -- the new campus
 23  that's going in in the centre of Mississauga; there's a
 24  file --
 25                 A:   We've had a --

30

  1                 Q:   -- for that purpose?
  2                 A:   We've had a Sheridan College file for
  3  many years, not specifically for that purpose.  We've
  4  always just had a Sheridan College file.
  5                 Q:   All right.  Now do you know whether
  6  the 2009 Sheridan College files have been turned over to
  7  the City?
  8                 A:   No, because I was not requested to do
  9  so.
 10                 Q:   All right.  Well, I might as well
 11  make that request now, I think.
 12                 A:   Of course.
 13                 Q:   And I take -- my friend to my right
 14  here and I can take it up offline as it were.
 15                 And have you been given any instruction by
 16  the Mayor with respect to cooperation with the Inquiry?
 17                 A:   She has asked me, as always, to be
 18  fully cooperative.
 19                 Q:   All right.  Now, I want to ask this
 20  question:  Given some of the media the last day, has the
 21  Mayor ever given you an instruction to shred anything or
 22  to destroy any document?
 23                 A:   No, she would never do something like
 24  that.  I, on my own, I will acknowledge, have, on
 25  occasion, had to shred something, but it's pertaining,

31

  1  you know, with our office.  And if you want, I can give
  2  you an example of that.
  3                 Just within the last couple of days we
  4  were given new confidential phone directories from our
  5  Communications Division on the instruction that we
  6  destroy the old ones.
  7                 Q:   Right.
  8                 A:   And, also, I'm ver --
  9                 Q:   And -- and when -- you've given me an
 10  example, as well, of -- of when you destroy documents in
 11  the ordinary course at the end of a year --
 12                 A:   Mm-hm.
 13                 Q:   -- for example?
 14                 A:   But those aren't shredded.  They're
 15  just simply placed in a recycling bin and thrown out.
 16  They're not shredded.
 17                 Q:   Right.  And since the Inquiry was
 18  announced, has any instruction been given to you to
 19  destroy any documents which had anything to do with the
 20  Inquiry?
 21                 A:   No.
 22                 Q:   All right.  Just a moment.
 23
 24                       (BRIEF PAUSE)
 25

32

  1                 Q:   If you know, and you might not, why
  2  is the -- the WCD land transaction and the Sheridan
  3  College land transaction -- we'll deal with first half of
  4  my question.  Why is the WCD transaction placed in the
  5  Enersource file?
  6                 A:   I can only -- I -- my response to you
  7  previously was I can only assume that it would be because
  8  it has come to pass that it was related.
  9                 Q:   Related in the sense that they're
 10  both subject of -- of the Inquiry.
 11                 A:   Right.
 12                 Q:   But without looking, you don't know
 13  whether one was -- was a --
 14                 A:   No, I would have to look through the
 15  files.
 16                 Q:   Okay, just so my question's clear and
 17  your answer's clear; you don't know without looking
 18  whether the WCD documents, in fact, would be in the
 19  Enersource file.
 20                 A:   Right.
 21                 Q:   All right.  Fair enough.  Thank you.
 22  Those are my questions for you.
 23                 COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS CUNNINGHAM:   Thank
 24  you.  Ms. Wynne, do you have any questions?
 25                 Ms. Kristjanson...?

33

  1                 MS. FREYA KRISTJANSON:   No, thank you.
  2                 MS. TRACY WYNNE:   No, Mr. Commissioner,
  3  no, thank you.
  4                 COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS CUNNINGHAM:   Thank
  5  you.
  6                 MS. FREYA KRISTJANSON:   Oh, actually, I
  7  did remember one (1) question, sorry.
  8                 COMMISSIONER DOUGLAS CUNNINGHAM:   All
  9  right.
 10
 11  CROSS-EXAMINATION BY FREYA KRISTJANSON:
 12                 Q:   I did want to clarify.  Ms. Horvat,
 13  you stated that you've been working with the Mayor for
 14  approximately twenty (20) years.
 15                 A:   Yes.
 16                 Q:   Who are you employed by?
 17                 A:   I'm employed by the Corporation and
 18  the City of Mississauga.
 19                 Q:   So you are not directly or personally
 20  employed by the Mayor's political staff?
 21                 A:   No, the Mayor does not have any
 22  political staff.
 23                 Q:   Thank you.

CITY OF MISSISSAUGA RECORDS DESTRUCTION WEEK APRIL 23-27 2007.

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